Stuff
Version 1.9 is out! After a week-long battle with the server it’s finally here; though since I didn’t want to delay it further, most of the bigger promised additions are absent. Changelog:
* New server build! This is most probably a good thing, and will later allow IP-bans and such.
* Dedicated server! Thanks, Jamie and Mathias, you guys rock!
* New research subject – shopping time for the engineers!
* Ninja cloak was removed from research; it’s now available right away.
* Various bugfixes
* If a player breaks down (is left swimming mid-air, immortal etc), the game attempts to remove them so that they can’t spoil the game for others.
* Emoticons (sorta!) – push number buttons and experience beauty!
* Something else, possibly, can’t just remember what
JUST GET IT OK
In other news, Once in Space was reviewed at JayIsGames.com!
hempuli the game is a broken again
Stu, bout the spy ID, your teammates allready see it, you just wear it lal.
Masjin is a button mashing game. Sorry, but ‘auto shooting’ or somethjing else would make the game boring. What should i do as experienced player if i only can shoot a limited time? No auto shooting!
Now the icons: The icons are only for fun and maybe for easier team communication… but they shouldnt have functions, i think.
Oh i forgot smth: If i press ‘Connect’ in masjin the text ‘Connecting to server…’ appears, but i can wait and wait, the game wont connect. Dunno whether its the same problem like Scoob’s
Steel Ken, I hadn’t thought of that. That’s a good point. I haven’t been able to get the new build running in Wine, so I haven’t really explored the emoticon functionality.
Auto-fire will certainly skew the game more tactically. If that’s what people want….. personally I am good at the twitch gameplay and I feel that having those skirmishes where you can out-keyboard the other player lend it a bit of Quake-like FPS charm. I don’t see why the game can’t feature both of those (action + strategic resource use) modalities, so to speak.
While I don’t really mind the whole button-mashing-to-fire thing, I know a few people definitely dislike it. One person specifically said he won’t play unless it’s removed. [Although I think it’s a bit much to go that far, but it’s a comment worth noting, I guess..]
I think changing to an auto-fire system is a step in the right direction, for sure. Making it so that players don’t have to mash the key as quickly as they can every time they want to fire isn’t casual design, it’s /good/ design. [Especially since everyone who wants an upper hand is immediately going to look for an auto-fire program, or reach for the turbo button on their gamepads.]
Showing an Icon could mean ‘Become a …’ so I don’t see a problem.
The ninja icon one is the only one that makes sense. Maybe there could be a Spy ID one, too, to make yourself known to teammates.
Automatic shooting is a step to casual gameplay. ;) I doubt it’ll be more fun than oldschool button-mashing.
BTW, here’s the idea of using class emoticons to slightly enhance respective proficiency.
When mason shows cybermason icon, his digging rate is 1.5x more.
When fighter shows fighter icon, his fire rate is 1.1x more.
When healer shows medkit emoticon, his healing rate is 1.3x more.
When ninja shows ninja icon in stealth mode, he becomes visible to teammates (and opponents don’t see the icon).
When engineer shows engineer icon, his construction rate is 2x more.
Of course these numbers should be balanced, but overall this would add some depth to the game. Right now there’s no point for any class to show his own icon.
Fighters aren’t too overpowered, but they have one loophole – unlimited shooting rate. It is sometimes abused by people who run autofire software like Joy2key. In theory Fighters can shoot a stream of 30 bullets per second, while other classes can shoot only 7-8 or so, even when they hit the button more often.
When people play Fighters without software assistance, they can usually shoot no more than 10-12 bullets per second (depends on fingers), I think Hempuli should put this limit (12) as a max for Fighter class, and then no need to decrease damage or anything else. Right now classes are quite well balanced, you’ll understand that after playing more.
For example I’m using Scientist most of the time, and keep killing Fighters by dodging a lot. I find it to be the most fun aspect of the game – dancing among bullets and outliving your opponent sometimes by a few HPs.
I think I really need to make the shooting automatic, but add some other limitation; we tested limited bullets and ‘reload times’ earlier but they didn’t work at all. A system where the gun could be fired for a while after which it would overheat might be interesting to try. I know some people like the button-pummeling aspect, but it’s not really that good a think if people with a faster finger are automatically better than other players.
1. I routinely mop up other players while playing as cybermason. I go whole matches without switching from this class, even if I’ve stopped mining. You have to have some agility and an itchy trigger finger. It’s such that I only switch to fighter when I really feel like I need heavy artillery. I think most people play that class by default, but it’s a liability for them, in fact. Remember, as cybermason you also accrue ore for your kills. If you are on top of your mining but also a deft gunslinger, you can whittle down the enemy while collecting $ for your team. Remember to use the speed+ upgrade and buffs to your benefit. A hasted cybermason with a jetpack can, if attacked, pop open the door of the digger and give ’em hell, then go back to mining without breaking a sweat. Also remember that the cybermason can dig his way into little areas that the fighter can’t jump high enough to reach (a key getaway tactic), so I think there are actually some balancing elements here.
2. I agree about scientist. But I think the heal tick is good for a solo health buff. It’s hard to work it into group dynamics mainly because there is often no sense of organized teamwork. (Which is why leagues are needed)
3. The engineer shop is good at later levels of the game, i.e. after a match has progressed and things are developed up and you have more $ at your disposal. Particularly good in the CP mode for not having to run back and forth and buy items, but routinely underutilized in those circumstances.
4. More than a few turrets working in tandem can severely limit the opponent’s progress into your base, and they can even create huge gridlock, which makes clever use of the Spy ID and fast-moving chopper (loaded up with teammates, natch) a fantastic counter-strategy.
5. Ninjas, too, show their potential later in the match, once the turf has been “cleared,” so to speak, and more creative stealth is called for. Really, a good team should be balanced so as not to have reduplication of efforts. The cloaked poison bomb is also not to be overlooked, although I would like to see one other “class-specific” tool for the ninja. Maybe some kind of grappling hook (with strict limitations on use), which would be amazing.
In sum, I don’t disagree that the fighter has more damage per second in a sheer mano-a-mano circumstance, but the ballet of the game really doesn’t appear in matches that are so shoddy and disorganized that you’re just tanking away at each other on a flatland. When you come up against good, crafty players that operate like a team, you’ll find that just rolling a fighter and trying to meat shield your way into things will get you nowhere — yes, even against cybermasons. It’s certainly worth considering how to tweak the damage ratios and class abilities, but I think that a lot of these inconsistencies appear only when the game is played at its most barebones level, i.e. people just wailing away at each other (borderline griefing) with little progress being made in terms of objectives/gameplay.
Here’s a thought — although I feel like the cybermason and fighter classes have sufficient points of differentiation to make them more or less equivalent, if you think the fighter has too much firepower, maybe his movement speed could be tweaked to test whether making him a slower but hard-hitting guy like the TF2 “heavy” makes any sense. I’m leaning towards this not being a good idea, but certainly these values could be played around with a bit. I also think that the more or less open-ended nature of a lot of the matches (even with game mode parameters set, more than 50% of the time is spent going off on side-errands, creating ramps, and sparring with guys — especially in the CP mode where it gets off to a very slow start and people don’t take the point until later in the match) means that it’s not exactly super _competitive_ per se, where every shot and point counts towards the win. The game is not being played in tourney style, so people are pretty casual about what their “mission” is on the map. If the game were to develop as more of a Worms sort of zero-sum thing, with hit points and damage being taken very seriously, then the class balancing would be more important. As it stands, it’s kind of a free-for-all and you can more than make up for another class’s perceived advantages by being very crafty and wily.
I don’t mind so much if you disagree with any of my comments. I’m certainly no expert on balance. I did feel a bit strongly about it though, and was a little worried since no one else seemed to mention any imbalances that I felt were there.
A side note, I took a peek at your posts under “Art” and that is some seriously great looking stuff.
Any chance of fighters getting nerfed, or the three “support” classes getting buffed?
As it stands now, mining as a cybermason only makes you mine faster. However, this is pretty much negated by how often you’ll die at the hands of fighters, and possibly even lose your digger. It’s a much more profitable to play fighter to defend yourself or cut off the enemy miner’s operation.
Scientist is cool, but I think the heal range, or perhaps time it takes to kick in is too low. I’d say the game is a bit too fast-paced to heal in any meaningful way currently.
Engineers just strike me as very good at wasting money. The ability to make items is cool, but it’s not like they’re any cheaper than from HQ, and maps are small enough that you’ll likely benefit more from just being a fighter and running back and forth. Turrets have awful range and are easily avoided or destroyed. I don’t think I’ve been in a single game where anyone uses them.
Not trying to say the game is bad or anything. It’s great. It just seems like Fighters are far and away the best class.
[Can’t really speak for ninjas, since I very rarely used them, but the lack of long-range attacks at least allows the non-offense classes a chance.]
I’m not sure what to agree with, but you sure do bring some good points here. Though I’ve seen all the things you listed as ‘not useful’ being used with good results, so I guess the problem is with the Fighter class. I’ll look into this.
Thanks. I can post the logs if they’re of interest. I know it’s a low priority thing. It crashes upon clicking ‘Connect,’ btw.
Ugh, ok; then it’s not what I thought. I’ll try to look into it, but I’m afraid that my options for dealing with it are quite low. It sounds like the new Lacewing build doesn’t like Wine, and it’s a shame if this is true. :(
This doesn’t work in Wine anymore – I think it’s the new Lacewing stuff. It crashes and mentions stdrt.exe, which I think is something built in? Anyway, I know Linux is not supported. But it looks like my Masjinin’ days are over :-(
Ugh, there’s actually another reason why that might happen; I’ll try to fix it for the next version.
(and yeah, stdrt.exe is the base application that is embedded in all MMF 2 games.)